Define Love:

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Re: Define Love:

Post by Telejim » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:42 am

The definition of love, from HK-47. Assassin Droid.

"making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope."

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Re: Define Love:

Post by Ikku » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:51 pm

logically wrote:well it may be a subjective feeling, but how are we going to have any feelings at all without chemical reactions in our brain.

so which came first, the feeling or the chemical reaction causing feelings?


or the chicken or the egg?
I'm not sure this is 100% true though. There is a correlation between a person's feelings and their brain state, but you cannot prove causation.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by logically » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:14 pm

I'm not sure if it's true or not either. Honestly i was just throwing it out there for the sake of discsussion.

Do you humans have souls? Is that where love comes from and not our brain?

Or is love less of a emotional state and more of a perserverence through time. Staying with someone even after that first 'flame' has gone out. Or should that first tinge of love never die out?

or does it evolve into a different thing?

You know thinking about it now, there are a lot of different kinds of love. Love from parents to children, love between siblings, love between two consenting adults.... and probably lots of different little aspects of those loves too.

Have you ever loved anyone unconditionally? What do you think caused that? Is unconditional love even truly possible between humans? I don't know... I am just trying to spark discussion.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by weedguru_animal » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:36 am

i USED to truly believe that love, proper love, as in my own definition of 'magnificently proud and constant, unwavering devotion to the happiness and well being of another creature', was the result of soul roots, in a wondrous forest of souls, becoming entangled, or always been entangled, and in our lives, simply have the chance to see and feel these entanglings of soul roots. The brain is reactive, as an organism, as part of our flesh organism. it is NOT the same as the mind, or the heart, as the terms are broadly defined and used. I am well aware that in some cases, the mis-developed brain organism, can govern the mind. That is a different scenario entirely...its like saying...i was born with the bones in my legs not properly connected, so i cant walk, is that because of my experiences???? if one were to ask, is that the result of my mother and father's experiences? it would be more interesting. but as for love. it is most obviously to me, massively removed from any lust, but perhaps not from passion. Once lust comes into matter, it changes things drastically, as we develop infatuation, and a desire, a need, a constant, all consuming demand, to OWN what we thirst for...that is not love. it is lust. so...i prefer to say that many people mistake Love for other emotional and biological sensations. and there is, really, only one love, which is rooted a completely unconditional desire to make another creature happy, safe, healthy...needing nothing in return for such efforts and wants.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by WeedGuru_Flow » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:51 am

Ikku wrote:Love is a chemical reaction? Give me the empirical formula then oh wise one...there is not a single spot in your brain you could point to chemicals and say "oh there's the love reaction." Honestly that kind of positivist answer is so empty it makes me weep. Love is a subjective feeling, not a physical thing happening in your brain, you can't do any kind of brain scan and show the emotion of love. In fact the exact same brain activity could be interpreted by your consciousness as fear or as excitement or as jealousy, depending on the subjective factors surrounding it.

So...what is love?


Baby don't hurt me...don't hurt me...no more....
lol.

So you're saying that our brain does not release chemicals in certain situations triggering certain emotions/feelings?


Love is a shift of the balance of hormones (chemicals) in your brain triggered by a series of parameters - physical attraction, chemicals (feromones), setting .... - so yes,simply put love generates from chemicals inside our brains.

Like empathy, our eyes see someone is hurting, our brain mirrors that and releases chemicals rendering us emphatic.


Just like everything else.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by SToNeR ChRiS » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:14 pm

When are we gonna grow up?
Why do I love you so much we so touched?
Excited by the drama we like when it show up
The fightin don't slow up, I light you like close ups
And I call you my Calamity Jane, you like my fantasy
Love cause the same chemical reaction in the brain as insanity
Holidays drinkin wit'cha family... passionate folks
Imagine if they had they own reality show - actually no
Desire's like fire; quit playin or get burned
or give it away on camera like Montana Fishburne
Our presence is a gift, a gift is our present
Breakup text call her a bitch under my breath
And then the makeup sex she forgive me in a session
I know she love me, she sendin a mixed message though
I saw on TV today, this man lost his son, his son died...
So he had him cremated, took his ashes, and then made it into a Diamond ring...
Now he watches his son shine every day.
I just thought about that, while I sit here ashing in this ashtray...

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Re: Define Love:

Post by AbbyRoad » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:12 pm

love stinks
its like a interstate, it gets you from place to place but is littered with dead raccons.

love is like a garbage truck, its filled with waste and smells like rotting flesh
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Re: Define Love:

Post by Mate » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:04 pm

that stuff is getting fucking pessimistic.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by Ikku » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:54 pm

WeedGuru_Flow wrote:
Ikku wrote:Love is a chemical reaction? Give me the empirical formula then oh wise one...there is not a single spot in your brain you could point to chemicals and say "oh there's the love reaction." Honestly that kind of positivist answer is so empty it makes me weep. Love is a subjective feeling, not a physical thing happening in your brain, you can't do any kind of brain scan and show the emotion of love. In fact the exact same brain activity could be interpreted by your consciousness as fear or as excitement or as jealousy, depending on the subjective factors surrounding it.

So...what is love?


Baby don't hurt me...don't hurt me...no more....
lol.

So you're saying that our brain does not release chemicals in certain situations triggering certain emotions/feelings?


Love is a shift of the balance of hormones (chemicals) in your brain triggered by a series of parameters - physical attraction, chemicals (feromones), setting .... - so yes,simply put love generates from chemicals inside our brains.

Like empathy, our eyes see someone is hurting, our brain mirrors that and releases chemicals rendering us emphatic.


Just like everything else.

You've reduced it to a ridiculous level. The chemical reactions going on in our nervous system are no more complex than the reactions going on inside a mosquito's nervous system. But a mosquito cannot feel love, which is a complex feeling we have as a result of our social structures, not as a result of our chemistry. I hope I'm making sense, but you can't "quantify" love as in you can't say oh I love this person twice as much as this person because I release twice as many chemicals when I see this person. It doesn't work like that.
I personally recommend checking oneself for OCD at least once every 5 minutes.

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Re: Define Love:

Post by SToNeR ChRiS » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:14 am

Ikku wrote:
WeedGuru_Flow wrote:
Ikku wrote:Love is a chemical reaction? Give me the empirical formula then oh wise one...there is not a single spot in your brain you could point to chemicals and say "oh there's the love reaction." Honestly that kind of positivist answer is so empty it makes me weep. Love is a subjective feeling, not a physical thing happening in your brain, you can't do any kind of brain scan and show the emotion of love. In fact the exact same brain activity could be interpreted by your consciousness as fear or as excitement or as jealousy, depending on the subjective factors surrounding it.

So...what is love?


Baby don't hurt me...don't hurt me...no more....
lol.

So you're saying that our brain does not release chemicals in certain situations triggering certain emotions/feelings?


Love is a shift of the balance of hormones (chemicals) in your brain triggered by a series of parameters - physical attraction, chemicals (feromones), setting .... - so yes,simply put love generates from chemicals inside our brains.

Like empathy, our eyes see someone is hurting, our brain mirrors that and releases chemicals rendering us emphatic.


Just like everything else.

You've reduced it to a ridiculous level. The chemical reactions going on in our nervous system are no more complex than the reactions going on inside a mosquito's nervous system. But a mosquito cannot feel love, which is a complex feeling we have as a result of our social structures, not as a result of our chemistry. I hope I'm making sense, but you can't "quantify" love as in you can't say oh I love this person twice as much as this person because I release twice as many chemicals when I see this person. It doesn't work like that.
You didn't really prove a point in the second part of your post though. You can't really "quantify" love in terms of emotion as well. Saying you love someone or something "twice as much" as another person just doesn't work either. "Twice as much" is basically an arbitrary number. There's definitely more to love than a simple chemical reaction in the brain, but it is certain that what he is saying is true to a certain extent. Nobody said anything about the amount of neurotransmitters released when you see someone or something you love. I stand by my initial post in saying that there's definite emotional feelings involved, but there's also something going on in our brains as well. The part about the mosquito's nervous system being may be true... but all that proves is that perhaps we have to develop the feeling towards something before the "chemical reaction" occurs... not that it does not take place at all.
I saw on TV today, this man lost his son, his son died...
So he had him cremated, took his ashes, and then made it into a Diamond ring...
Now he watches his son shine every day.
I just thought about that, while I sit here ashing in this ashtray...

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Re: Define Love:

Post by AbbyRoad » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:24 am

everything works together.
its not one thing or another. they go hand in hand

what i find lacking in this thread is any spiritual stance.
i shall add my view in that regards some other time
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Re: Define Love:

Post by Ikku » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:26 am

Chris, I think you missed the point of my post. The reason I'm talking about the amount of neurotransmitters or whatever, or how you can't quantify love, is because my point is that it can't be reduced to a simple chemical reaction which is what Flow wants to do. If love is the product of a chemical reaction, and more reactants means more products, then more neurotransmitters should mean more love, but that's not how it works. If love is a chemical reaction, that's to suggest you can take a few things, throw them in a flask, and bam you have love in a jar. No I don't think it works like that either.

Love is a feeling, it's created by a complex network of different individuals living in a society together, and within each individual a network of neurons making up that person's brain. If you take a single part of the equation away, be it a small part like a part of your brain involved, or large the society around the individual, you would no longer have love. It's like Abby said, everything works together, it's not one thing or the other. I'm not saying that chemical/neural networks aren't a part of it, what I originally said was that his positivist attitude made me weep, although I suppose the more proper word would be reductionist. You can't reduce everything to its individual parts and claim that's all there really is. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

Abby I want to hear your spiritual stance! I bet I could dig it, I've developed quite the spiritual side.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by logically » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:13 am

lol we are guys talking about love like engineers talk about blueprints rofl...

abby comes in here and is like this thread needs a womans touch :D

if i got drunk i bet i would talk a lot more about love lol.... I don't really have any alcohol on hand though...

Ikku man you seem to have matured a lot from when you first on here mate... like you seem to have a different perspective on life now. That's cool man.

Anywho on topic.

I think a lot of what we are talking is interconnected a lot. Love means to you what you make it mean to you. Love is something personal. There are so many forms of it. and if you really wanted to make love nothing more than chemical reaction in the brain you could..... but that's pretty boring.

Isn't it exciting to be in love? There are so many highs. That feeling of excitement you get? That giddy feeling when you think about a certain someone... The feeling that someone has your back and you have their's. I don't know guys I am pretty high and am rambling a bit.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by weedguru_animal » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:42 am

only a pea brained moron focuses on how the brain reacts to feelings, more than the feelings themselves...which are no way rooted in brain or mind...perhaps such a stance makes certain people happier? i highly doubt it...as to me, such a stance, of brain more a reason for things than feeling, suggests the person is a moron...who may as well be dead...then their family can say, well, their brain released a chemical, and so they died. no feeling...fuck that shit...surely, other than sensation, the most wonderful reason for living is FEELING...and the brain, as science knows, can show feeling, but it does not produce feeling...introduce me to a rock, and my brain will show nothinf. introduce me to natasha khan, and my brain will show much of the secondary effects, the run-off, of my feelings, which science simply has nothing to do with...again, i repeat, only a human who i wish was dead, seriously believes that intense feeling is rooted in the brain. the brain shows the result, its not the cause...selah.
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Re: Define Love:

Post by Ikku » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:27 am

I realized I never really gave my own definition of love, just attacked someone else's :oops:

To me, love is a feeling felt by one individual for another, or for a group. It's not love if it's an inanimate object, objects are things you use (you can use people I guess but that's just wrong). It's love if it's for another creature. Maybe this could extend to love for plants, fungus, bacteria, but I don't know anyone who wants to take it that far. :3
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